Giselle Roux: The best investments for the next decade

And why she believes global growth will likely be challenged from here...
Ally Selby

Livewire Markets

Sky-high global debt levels, a slowing Chinese economy and unfavourable demographics don't paint a pretty picture of strengthening global growth in the years to come. 

And while the optimist may argue that the energy transition will become the next major GDP driver, independent investment adviser Giselle Roux is not so sure. 

"It's going to be a lot more volatile with periods of what some people describe as secular stagnation. In other words, low-end growth, which looks like what's probably going to emerge sometime over the next 12 months," she said. 
Today, investors are too quick to assume that the market will revert to how it was in the past, arguing (and likely praying) that the same pattern will emerge over time. 

"It drags people into thinking that there is no fundamental change that is taking place. It implies that there is a predictable cycle of when something goes up or down - that something naturally will occur afterwards that mean reverts it back to where it was," Giselle explained. 

"There is a fundamental change in financial markets with rates, inflation, and growth dynamics. And therefore, I wouldn't pay too much attention to what has happened in the past. I'd focus on what could happen in the next five to 10 years." 

In this wire, I'll summarise some of the key learnings from The Rules of Investing's latest podcast with Giselle. We cover everything from making sense of conflicting expert opinions you read online, global debt and growth, as well as where Giselle is finding opportunity today. 

I hope you enjoy reading this as much as I did writing it. 

Background info:

For those not in the know, Giselle started off her career as an equities analyst with Merrill Lynch and Citigroup, before her interest in other asset classes would drive her into chief investment officer roles with JBWere and later, Escala Partners. Since 2019, she has been providing independent advice to a small number of advisory groups. 

Independent investment advisor Giselle Roux
Independent investment advisor Giselle Roux


How to make sense of the fund manager insights you read online

I don't know about you, but I have been finding it particularly difficult to navigate the current market environment. Yesterday, I had coffee with a fund manager who proclaimed that we are already in a new bull market, while today I read an article that argued the opposite - recommending investors buy bonds. 

To make matters worse, the signals and surveys also seem to be pointing in opposite directions. For instance, the VIX is trading near its lows, which given the environment in which we find ourselves, indicates investors have become complacent (bearish signal), while the majority of investors are still holding a lot of cash and defensives (bullish signal). 

So how do you make sense of today's market? 

Giselle believes the secret is bearing in mind who is providing the information that you are consuming - as well as what the intention could be behind sharing these insights. As they say in the investment world, there is no such thing as a free lunch. 

"Unsurprisingly, fund managers will talk about the way they invest and what they're invested in. Their outlook is essentially predisposed to the way they've actually put money to work," she explained. 
"The vast majority are mandated to be fully invested and therefore simply have to find what they think, frankly, might be the best of a bad lot. It's very rare for a manager to say, 'I think the market's horrible. I'm not going to put money to work.' So, you have to just bear in mind the kind of information that you're getting." 

Obviously, no one really knows the future. And thus, much of what you may read, listen to or watch will turn out to be incorrect. 

"It's fantastic to listen to or read all this stuff, but it doesn't mean it's a good idea just because so and so said. So think about what they really mean and where they might be wrong," Giselle added. 

Why tightening credit should be on your radar 

Giselle believes the impact of credit and liquidity on the economy and investment markets isn't something readers would normally pay much attention to. However, credit availability can have a big impact on driving flows in various asset classes. 

"With interest rates having gone up at the fastest pace in decades... It is an extraordinary repricing of the cost of money for businesses and households as well," Giselle said. 

This also has an impact on lending and credit. 

"There is a withdrawal in the availability of credit, as people are more cautious about giving money to businesses - given that we don't know how economies are going to unfold, and how the cash flows of these businesses will cope with repaying the debt, nevermind refinancing the debt at the end of the term," Giselle explained. 

"Bear in mind that with the US regional bank problems, there was a general tightening of liquidity. But that was just one notch in what is likely to be an ongoing recalibration of how much credit actually flows into the corporate sector." 

So what does this mean for businesses? 

Well, Giselle believes companies or borrowers will need to prove their cash flows, and perhaps, provide more security. 

"The companies that need to borrow a lot given the nature of their business, which is plenty of good companies - think Transurban (ASX: TCL), which by its nature is a very leveraged company," she said. 

"Those kinds of companies may have taken out a lot of debt long term, but they will still need to think about what the pricing of debt is going to be." 

It also wouldn't be surprising if companies came to the market to raise capital to repay these debts over the next 12 months, she added, which would be diluting for shareholders. 

The impact of years of building the world's debt 

At some point, there is going to have to be some kind of reckoning, Giselle said. It's "inescapable". 

Not only did governments take on huge amounts of debt during the COVID crisis, but today, thanks to higher interest rates, the cost of that debt is now significantly higher. 

For some context, global debt is now somewhere in the vicinity of US$305 trillion – that is US$45 trillion higher than pre-pandemic levels. This is so much money that I honestly can't even fathom it. 

In the US alone, national debt currently sits at more than US$32 trillion. That's US$95,879 per citizen (of which there are nearly 337 million). Australia's debt is a far more palatable $1 trillion. That's $40,490 per person. 

"Interest costs will start to become a fiscal drag that governments will have to consider in how they spend throughout a budgetary phase," Giselle said. 

"We've seen budgets - state governments here, even the Federal Government, and even in the US - becoming less inclined to just grow their deficits at infinitum. Government spending does matter.

"I really struggle to think how this can be drawn out forever. I don't want to say Japan's always the story, but it is. Countries with very high debt levels statistically don't do economically well."

Global growth likely to slow 

On the constructive side, Giselle believes the continuing development of technology (with AI the new iteration of that progress), and spending on energy and the grid are likely to help drive global growth over the next decade.

She also believes that deglobalisation may be positive for global growth going forward. However, there are big-picture issues that still remain challenging. 

These include a slowing Chinese economy, unfavourable demographics (i.e. an ageing population), and global debt levels (as discussed above) - all of which are likely to be substantial hurdles that will keep growth below levels experienced over the past three decades. 

"The optimist would say that the whole transformation of energy is akin to China. It's quite possible that's true. If globally everybody transforms their energy systems, maybe... that could actually be the biggest driver of economic growth in the next five to 10 years," Giselle said. 

"But we just don't know. And it's not clear that it will result in productivity improvements." 

Giselle herself is not so optimistic. 

"I prefer to err on the side that suggests it's not going to be as great an economic period," she said. 
"Or at the very least, it's going to be a lot more volatile with periods of what some people describe as secular stagnation. In other words, low-end growth, which looks like what's probably going to emerge sometime over the next 12 months." 

Where Giselle believes investors can expect compelling returns over the next decade

Despite the worsening economic outlook, Giselle believes there are still "sensible" investment ideas on offer. 

This includes a "careful and considered" look at credit markets - with some funds now offering investors a very attractive 10% or more in annual income.  

"You have to read it for what it is - that implies that there is a higher risk appetite there than one that might give you 6% to 8%. But that is just the nature of the game," Giselle said. 

She also believes the AI phenomenon has legs over the next 12 months, however, she argues the winners will be "quite a narrow bunch and it won't be that easy."

"You might have to be prepared to cope with quite a bit of drawdown before the prize in your eyes starts to arise. It takes time," Giselle said. 

Equally, she argues that cybersecurity is also likely to be a long-lasting investment thematic. 

"It's almost inconceivable to me that [cybersecurity companies] don't have a good future if they can prove that they've got something that will stay in advance of all the stuff that goes on in that area," Giselle said. 

Meanwhile, small and mid-caps remain undervalued compared to their large-cap peers. 

"A lot of small-cap companies which haven't had profit problems are still trading at 10 times earnings. Just because they happen to be in an area that is considered risky, they have been ignored," she added. 

However, a word to the wise. You can't blindly invest in small caps in this environment. 

"Somewhere between 25% to 27% of small caps are what you call 'no-hopers'. They are companies that are unlikely to make any money and are not well managed whatsoever," Giselle said.  
"It's probably one of the rare areas where active management will pay off relative to passive." 

And why cash isn't king 

While Giselle admits that cash is a good place for investors to safeguard their savings over the short term, she notes holding for a longer time horizon wouldn't be in investors' best interests. 

"There's never been a 12-month rolling period where cash was the best-returning asset," Giselle said.  
"From memory, when I last looked at the data, which is admittedly some years ago, eight months was the longest time that we could find where holding cash on a rolling 12-month return basis was actually your best idea." 

With this in mind, she recommends investors should only hold cash when they are waiting to invest in another asset, or in the case of emergencies - despite savings accounts and term deposits now generating up to 5.2%. 

"5% is a perfectly decent return, but you should be able to do better in other asset classes," Giselle said. 

"By way of example, credit will give you more than that right now. You can buy a bank credit and make more than 5%. And if you buy it and hold it all the way to maturity, you will have made that money regardless of the volatility and the pricing of the underlying credit." 

For cash to become more attractive, interest rates will need to stay higher or go higher. And in that scenario, the rest of your portfolio will suffer. 

"If interest rates have to go higher or are kept high long enough, it actually begs the question, why do you hold any investment assets? It's almost contradictory to hold growth investment assets and then sit on a massive pile of cash. But by all means, a small amount of cash is perfect," Giselle said. 

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Ally Selby
Deputy Managing Editor
Livewire Markets

Ally Selby is the deputy managing editor at Livewire Markets, joining the team at the end of 2020. She loves all things investing, financial literacy and content creation, having previously worked for the likes of Financial Standard, Pedestrian...

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